A year ago, Generative AI powered search seemed like the perfect quick win for companies taking their first steps with AI.
After building AI search for companies like MongoDB, Coinbase, and Snap at Mendable, we learned the nuances that make the difference between a demo and a production-ready system that actually drives value.
Before we came in, almost every company had a few engineers creating prototypes yet most of which fell short following contact with real users.
It all comes back to a simple truth: the system is only as good as the data going in.
As you scale, here\u2019s why the simple approaches break:
- Context crowding: Correct context for a given query gets crowded out by bad context. Take the Snap AR docs for example, they have 4 different products on their developer documentation website and they all have getting started pages. If a user asks a vague query like \u201chow do I get started\u201d to a basic RAG chatbot, the answer is going to most likely be an incorrect amalgamation of the 4 guides.\n- Outdated data: Information and processes constantly iterate, and documentation is not always maintained. One of our first customers, Spectrocloud, was benchmarking our chatbot before going into prod and they found that one answer in particular was not correct. At first we thought that the model was hallucinating, but after manually searching the docs we found the outdated source info on an obscure part of the documentation. \n- Data cleanliness: If data isn't clean, performance worsens and costs soar. We powered the chatbot on the documentation for Langchain, and data cleanliness and specifically prompt injection was a huge issue. Many of the Langchain pages had prompt examples embedded in them, which confused the model. We also noticed that a lot of unnecessary extra information was in our index like navigation menus on every page.\n- Data access: Accessing a variety of data sources is often critical for companies, but it introduces a host of challenges. For example, at Firecrawl, we\u2019ve seen that many large companies simply want to access web data from their own websites, but even this can involve complex permissioning, authentication, and data-fetching hurdles.
To mitigate these issues, companies building these apps should have a data strategy with the goal of curating and maintaining quality data. Here are some practical suggestions to guide your strategy:
- Metadata Management: Good metadata is your first defense against context crowding. Every piece of content should be tagged with essential details like product association, who created it, and who can access it. This enables advanced filtering and more accurate responses.\n- Data Maintenance: To keep data fresh and reliable, the teams that create content should be responsible for regular reviews and updates. When underlying information changes, the corresponding documentation needs to change with it.\n- Data Sanitation: Raw data rarely arrives in ideal form. Before ingestion, strip away unnecessary formatting and information while preserving the essential details. While each content source requires different handling, tools like Unstructured can help standardize this process.\n- Data Access & Integration: Build the infrastructure to access your data sources seamlessly. You'll need continuous data flow from knowledge bases, ticketing systems, websites, and more. Tools like Firecrawl can help build these pipelines and ensure high-quality data ingestion.
Startups like Glean, Unstructured, and our own Firecrawl have made some incredible progress on these problems, but no one has solved it all. No matter what tools emerge to make the process easier, having a robust data strategy is foundational to building production ready Generative AI Apps.
Thanks for reading and best of luck building AI apps!"},"title":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"A data strategy is essential for generative AI apps"}},"_tags":["story","author_ericciarla","story_42434555","ask_hn"],"author":"ericciarla","children":[42435530],"created_at":"2024-12-16T19:41:22Z","created_at_i":1734378082,"num_comments":1,"objectID":"42434555","points":4,"story_id":42434555,"story_text":"Hey everyone! Eric from Firecrawl here (YC S22), I wanted to share some takeaways from building AI chat products for enterprises at Mendable!
A year ago, Generative AI powered search seemed like the perfect quick win for companies taking their first steps with AI.
After building AI search for companies like MongoDB, Coinbase, and Snap at Mendable, we learned the nuances that make the difference between a demo and a production-ready system that actually drives value.
Before we came in, almost every company had a few engineers creating prototypes yet most of which fell short following contact with real users.
It all comes back to a simple truth: the system is only as good as the data going in.
As you scale, here\u2019s why the simple approaches break:
- Context crowding: Correct context for a given query gets crowded out by bad context. Take the Snap AR docs for example, they have 4 different products on their developer documentation website and they all have getting started pages. If a user asks a vague query like \u201chow do I get started\u201d to a basic RAG chatbot, the answer is going to most likely be an incorrect amalgamation of the 4 guides.\n- Outdated data: Information and processes constantly iterate, and documentation is not always maintained. One of our first customers, Spectrocloud, was benchmarking our chatbot before going into prod and they found that one answer in particular was not correct. At first we thought that the model was hallucinating, but after manually searching the docs we found the outdated source info on an obscure part of the documentation. \n- Data cleanliness: If data isn't clean, performance worsens and costs soar. We powered the chatbot on the documentation for Langchain, and data cleanliness and specifically prompt injection was a huge issue. Many of the Langchain pages had prompt examples embedded in them, which confused the model. We also noticed that a lot of unnecessary extra information was in our index like navigation menus on every page.\n- Data access: Accessing a variety of data sources is often critical for companies, but it introduces a host of challenges. For example, at Firecrawl, we\u2019ve seen that many large companies simply want to access web data from their own websites, but even this can involve complex permissioning, authentication, and data-fetching hurdles.
To mitigate these issues, companies building these apps should have a data strategy with the goal of curating and maintaining quality data. Here are some practical suggestions to guide your strategy:
- Metadata Management: Good metadata is your first defense against context crowding. Every piece of content should be tagged with essential details like product association, who created it, and who can access it. This enables advanced filtering and more accurate responses.\n- Data Maintenance: To keep data fresh and reliable, the teams that create content should be responsible for regular reviews and updates. When underlying information changes, the corresponding documentation needs to change with it.\n- Data Sanitation: Raw data rarely arrives in ideal form. Before ingestion, strip away unnecessary formatting and information while preserving the essential details. While each content source requires different handling, tools like Unstructured can help standardize this process.\n- Data Access & Integration: Build the infrastructure to access your data sources seamlessly. You'll need continuous data flow from knowledge bases, ticketing systems, websites, and more. Tools like Firecrawl can help build these pipelines and ensure high-quality data ingestion.
Startups like Glean, Unstructured, and our own Firecrawl have made some incredible progress on these problems, but no one has solved it all. No matter what tools emerge to make the process easier, having a robust data strategy is foundational to building production ready Generative AI Apps.
Thanks for reading and best of luck building AI apps!","title":"A data strategy is essential for generative AI apps","updated_at":"2025-08-19T07:34:24Z"},{"_highlightResult":{"author":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"master_crab"},"comment_text":{"fullyHighlighted":false,"matchLevel":"full","matchedWords":["spectro","cloud"],"value":"Go get a cluster manager like Rafay or Spectro cloud. There are a lot of footguns in cluster management: cert management, ingress controller, IaC (TF versioning is a pain), etc.
a cluster manager isn\u2019t cheap but it sounds like you are getting buried. If you\u2019re on 1.23 or up though, you at least have a year now to fix it."},"story_title":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"Learnings from our years of Kubernetes in production"},"story_url":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"https://medium.com/@.anders/learnings-from-our-8-years-of-kubernetes-in-production-two-major-cluster-crashes-ditching-self-0257c09d36cd"}},"_tags":["comment","author_master_crab","story_39272698"],"author":"master_crab","comment_text":"Go get a cluster manager like Rafay or Spectro cloud. There are a lot of footguns in cluster management: cert management, ingress controller, IaC (TF versioning is a pain), etc.
a cluster manager isn\u2019t cheap but it sounds like you are getting buried. If you\u2019re on 1.23 or up though, you at least have a year now to fix it.","created_at":"2024-02-07T03:31:52Z","created_at_i":1707276712,"objectID":"39284133","parent_id":39281501,"story_id":39272698,"story_title":"Learnings from our years of Kubernetes in production","story_url":"https://medium.com/@.anders/learnings-from-our-8-years-of-kubernetes-in-production-two-major-cluster-crashes-ditching-self-0257c09d36cd","updated_at":"2024-09-20T16:21:14Z"},{"_highlightResult":{"author":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"eciton"},"comment_text":{"fullyHighlighted":false,"matchLevel":"full","matchedWords":["spectro","cloud"],"value":"The privacy angle is really important \u2014 but just as important is avoiding all of the vulnerabilities that OpenAI seems to have.
Great to see the speed this is progressing and the collab with k8sgpt / prometheus / spectro cloud / etc. Community effort!"},"story_title":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"LocalAI: Local models on CPU with OpenAI compatible API"},"story_url":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"https://github.com/go-skynet/LocalAI"}},"_tags":["comment","author_eciton","story_35726934"],"author":"eciton","comment_text":"The privacy angle is really important \u2014 but just as important is avoiding all of the vulnerabilities that OpenAI seems to have.
Great to see the speed this is progressing and the collab with k8sgpt / prometheus / spectro cloud / etc. Community effort!","created_at":"2023-04-28T11:39:47Z","created_at_i":1682681987,"objectID":"35740059","parent_id":35726934,"story_id":35726934,"story_title":"LocalAI: Local models on CPU with OpenAI compatible API","story_url":"https://github.com/go-skynet/LocalAI","updated_at":"2024-09-20T13:59:20Z"},{"_highlightResult":{"author":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"galaxyLogic"},"title":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"AMD Instinct Coder"},"url":{"fullyHighlighted":false,"matchLevel":"full","matchedWords":["spectro","cloud"],"value":"https://www.spectrocloud.com/platform/amd-instinct-coder"}},"_tags":["story","author_galaxyLogic","story_49347679"],"author":"galaxyLogic","children":[49347713],"created_at":"2026-08-18T15:57:27Z","created_at_i":1787068647,"num_comments":1,"objectID":"49347679","points":2,"story_id":49347679,"title":"AMD Instinct Coder","updated_at":"2026-08-19T00:29:52Z","url":"https://www.spectrocloud.com/platform/amd-instinct-coder"},{"_highlightResult":{"author":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"anton5mith2"},"title":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"Do you know more about Kubernetes than ChatGPT?"},"url":{"fullyHighlighted":false,"matchLevel":"full","matchedWords":["spectro","cloud"],"value":"https://www.spectrocloud.com/blog/do-you-know-more-about-kubernetes-than-chatgpt/"}},"_tags":["story","author_anton5mith2","story_33836076"],"author":"anton5mith2","created_at":"2022-12-02T20:04:08Z","created_at_i":1670011448,"num_comments":0,"objectID":"33836076","points":1,"story_id":33836076,"title":"Do you know more about Kubernetes than ChatGPT?","updated_at":"2024-09-20T12:38:27Z","url":"https://www.spectrocloud.com/blog/do-you-know-more-about-kubernetes-than-chatgpt/"},{"_highlightResult":{"author":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"jgrahamc"},"comment_text":{"fullyHighlighted":false,"matchLevel":"full","matchedWords":["spectro","cloud"],"value":"Cloudflare has a product called Spectrum that is used for game servers and other things: https://www.cloudflare.com/en-gb/products/cloudflare-spectru... (does arbitrary TCP and UDP)."},"story_title":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"FBI kicks some of the worst \u2018DDoS for hire\u2019 sites off the internet"},"story_url":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"https://techcrunch.com/2018/12/20/fbi-ddos-booter-sites-offline/"}},"_tags":["comment","author_jgrahamc","story_18728851"],"author":"jgrahamc","comment_text":"Cloudflare has a product called Spectrum that is used for game servers and other things: https://www.cloudflare.com/en-gb/products/cloudflare-spectru... (does arbitrary TCP and UDP).","created_at":"2018-12-21T12:27:08Z","created_at_i":1545395228,"objectID":"18732918","parent_id":18732904,"story_id":18728851,"story_title":"FBI kicks some of the worst \u2018DDoS for hire\u2019 sites off the internet","story_url":"https://techcrunch.com/2018/12/20/fbi-ddos-booter-sites-offline/","updated_at":"2024-09-20T03:28:53Z"},{"_highlightResult":{"author":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"jacksmith21006"},"comment_text":{"fullyHighlighted":false,"matchLevel":"full","matchedWords":["spectro","cloud"],"value":"Google has just given back so much more than Microsoft. Great example is Google dominates with Android and Chrome the client and server and creates SPDY and gives it away. Heck it was changed and they even switch from SPDY to http2.
Or a big one is MpegLA was commiting basically extortion and Google created VP8 and gave away for free. But then did a crazy thing of even giving people that use for free protection from patent infringement. Who does that?
That is why we do not pay what we had to for mpeg2 licenses. Just not aware of similar from MS?
Or a big one is Google finding Shellshock, Spectre, Cloudbleed, Heartbleed, Meltdown and others. MS has so much to lose and does not find anywhere near what Google does to help the entire industry. Plus Google even shares mitigations.
Instead Google finds MS vulnerabilities and gives them 90 days and MS b*thches about it instead of thanking.
But then all the papers of things that are now just defacto standards. Like GFS, Map/reduce, Bigtable, Borg with K8s and just so many more.
Some are ways we now do things.
Then all the source code they give away."},"story_title":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"DeepMind: First major AI patent filings revealed"},"story_url":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2018/06/deepmind-first-major-ai-patent-filings.html"}},"_tags":["comment","author_jacksmith21006","story_17266951"],"author":"jacksmith21006","comment_text":"Google has just given back so much more than Microsoft. Great example is Google dominates with Android and Chrome the client and server and creates SPDY and gives it away. Heck it was changed and they even switch from SPDY to http2.
Or a big one is MpegLA was commiting basically extortion and Google created VP8 and gave away for free. But then did a crazy thing of even giving people that use for free protection from patent infringement. Who does that?
That is why we do not pay what we had to for mpeg2 licenses. Just not aware of similar from MS?
Or a big one is Google finding Shellshock, Spectre, Cloudbleed, Heartbleed, Meltdown and others. MS has so much to lose and does not find anywhere near what Google does to help the entire industry. Plus Google even shares mitigations.
Instead Google finds MS vulnerabilities and gives them 90 days and MS b*thches about it instead of thanking.
But then all the papers of things that are now just defacto standards. Like GFS, Map/reduce, Bigtable, Borg with K8s and just so many more.
Some are ways we now do things.
Then all the source code they give away.","created_at":"2018-06-08T19:47:44Z","created_at_i":1528487264,"objectID":"17269082","parent_id":17268435,"story_id":17266951,"story_title":"DeepMind: First major AI patent filings revealed","story_url":"http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2018/06/deepmind-first-major-ai-patent-filings.html","updated_at":"2024-09-20T02:38:23Z"},{"_highlightResult":{"author":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"jacksmith21006"},"comment_text":{"fullyHighlighted":false,"matchLevel":"full","matchedWords":["spectro","cloud"],"value":"Of course companies have ethics and morals. Companies are run by people.
Google more than most if we look at actions. The biggest was leaving China over principle and losing out on a ton of money versus Apple handing over their user data.
But there are so many more with Google. So many crazy ones.
Look at smartphones and Google continuing to give away Android for free. Even in China where there is not Google services and Google even lets Amazon use it for all their hardware.
Google doing this makes phones available to people that would not have the means otherwise. If just Apple they would be stuck.
But a huge one that is close to home is what Google has done for K12 in the US. Our school use to be all Apple but has now replaced the Apple with using Google for pretty much everything.
Our school is relatively wealthy but many are not has blessed as ours and Google offering ChromeOS for free and all the software makes it possible for these kids to have access to computer technology that without Google they would not.
But the big one for us is the analytics. Matching kids up to teachers is so,so,so important and can make a huge difference in a kids life. Previous it had been done by gut. Our school has moved to using the Google ecocystem and our school is a Google K12 showcase school. I forget what they call it. So they are working with our school to use analytics to match kid to teacher.
That just would never have happened or not for a long time without Google.
Also think about the schools that were using Microsoft before replacing with Google. We were lucky we had the money to buy Apple but some were not as lucky and the improvement will be far greater for the schools that were previously using Microsoft. Teachers have limited class time and Windows would cause them to lose a lot more class time dealing with silliness. Or more likely the laptops left in the corner has full of viruses and malware.
I can give countless other examples. Where would we be with data scientice without the Map/Reduce and GFS papers?
Why did Google give it away?
How about Borg and now we have K8s? Why did they give that away?
Or the source code to so many different systems. Or why on earth when you own the front and back end and come up with SPDY did you give it away? Then the standard group changes it and you still spend the money to make sure you are standard.
Probably one of the biggest is VP8 and VP9. The MPEG-LA was trying to exort us for license fees. Google not only gives away VP8 for free but then on top tells people they will protect them from patent infringement.
Google even gave it away to competitors.
Do you realize even though Google has tons and tons of IP they have not sued another company for infringement? I mean never! That helps all of us.
Waymo did go after Uber but that was not Google. I suspect Waymo will be handled differently as they are not giving everything away like Google.
The other case was a suit started by Moto before Google purchase that they let go.
Then we have Shellshock, Meltdown, Spectre, Heartbleed, Cloudbleed among others all found from Google.
Heck Google found the Cloudbleed bug and shared with Cloudflare for free including the mitigation even though they are freaking competitors!! Google spent money to help them. Now how on earth is that not morals? Doing the right thing? But what drives your posts?
Google shared the Meltdown mitigation with MS and Amazon so they could save money
I can not think of any tech company that has given back nearly as much as Google. So many times deciding to do what is right versus what would have made them a buck.
Can you name any company in history that has given back as much as Google? Look at the papers they have shared with things like Wavenet, and AlphaGo and BigTable and a big new one Google Beyond Corp and literally 100s of others?
Parc gave back a lot as well as Bell labs but if we look at the benefit to the industry I would say Google has given more. Part of it is the industry is also much bigger.
Long post but not what I care about. I am insanely curious by nature and I just have to know what drives the half truths over and over again you post on HN about Google?
Is it your job? Why?
It seems to be the only contribution you make to HN is to make something up or twist something over and over again.
Please share why?"},"story_title":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"Google Won't Renew Contract for Project Maven, Pentagon Drone AI Imaging Program"},"story_url":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"https://gizmodo.com/google-plans-not-to-renew-its-contract-for-project-mave-1826488620"}},"_tags":["comment","author_jacksmith21006","story_17208892"],"author":"jacksmith21006","children":[17216654],"comment_text":"Of course companies have ethics and morals. Companies are run by people.
Google more than most if we look at actions. The biggest was leaving China over principle and losing out on a ton of money versus Apple handing over their user data.
But there are so many more with Google. So many crazy ones.
Look at smartphones and Google continuing to give away Android for free. Even in China where there is not Google services and Google even lets Amazon use it for all their hardware.
Google doing this makes phones available to people that would not have the means otherwise. If just Apple they would be stuck.
But a huge one that is close to home is what Google has done for K12 in the US. Our school use to be all Apple but has now replaced the Apple with using Google for pretty much everything.
Our school is relatively wealthy but many are not has blessed as ours and Google offering ChromeOS for free and all the software makes it possible for these kids to have access to computer technology that without Google they would not.
But the big one for us is the analytics. Matching kids up to teachers is so,so,so important and can make a huge difference in a kids life. Previous it had been done by gut. Our school has moved to using the Google ecocystem and our school is a Google K12 showcase school. I forget what they call it. So they are working with our school to use analytics to match kid to teacher.
That just would never have happened or not for a long time without Google.
Also think about the schools that were using Microsoft before replacing with Google. We were lucky we had the money to buy Apple but some were not as lucky and the improvement will be far greater for the schools that were previously using Microsoft. Teachers have limited class time and Windows would cause them to lose a lot more class time dealing with silliness. Or more likely the laptops left in the corner has full of viruses and malware.
I can give countless other examples. Where would we be with data scientice without the Map/Reduce and GFS papers?
Why did Google give it away?
How about Borg and now we have K8s? Why did they give that away?
Or the source code to so many different systems. Or why on earth when you own the front and back end and come up with SPDY did you give it away? Then the standard group changes it and you still spend the money to make sure you are standard.
Probably one of the biggest is VP8 and VP9. The MPEG-LA was trying to exort us for license fees. Google not only gives away VP8 for free but then on top tells people they will protect them from patent infringement.
Google even gave it away to competitors.
Do you realize even though Google has tons and tons of IP they have not sued another company for infringement? I mean never! That helps all of us.
Waymo did go after Uber but that was not Google. I suspect Waymo will be handled differently as they are not giving everything away like Google.
The other case was a suit started by Moto before Google purchase that they let go.
Then we have Shellshock, Meltdown, Spectre, Heartbleed, Cloudbleed among others all found from Google.
Heck Google found the Cloudbleed bug and shared with Cloudflare for free including the mitigation even though they are freaking competitors!! Google spent money to help them. Now how on earth is that not morals? Doing the right thing? But what drives your posts?
Google shared the Meltdown mitigation with MS and Amazon so they could save money
I can not think of any tech company that has given back nearly as much as Google. So many times deciding to do what is right versus what would have made them a buck.
Can you name any company in history that has given back as much as Google? Look at the papers they have shared with things like Wavenet, and AlphaGo and BigTable and a big new one Google Beyond Corp and literally 100s of others?
Parc gave back a lot as well as Bell labs but if we look at the benefit to the industry I would say Google has given more. Part of it is the industry is also much bigger.
Long post but not what I care about. I am insanely curious by nature and I just have to know what drives the half truths over and over again you post on HN about Google?
Is it your job? Why?
It seems to be the only contribution you make to HN is to make something up or twist something over and over again.
Please share why?","created_at":"2018-06-02T12:23:30Z","created_at_i":1527942210,"objectID":"17214242","parent_id":17210665,"story_id":17208892,"story_title":"Google Won't Renew Contract for Project Maven, Pentagon Drone AI Imaging Program","story_url":"https://gizmodo.com/google-plans-not-to-renew-its-contract-for-project-mave-1826488620","updated_at":"2024-09-20T02:32:41Z"},{"_highlightResult":{"author":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"jacksmith21006"},"comment_text":{"fullyHighlighted":false,"matchLevel":"full","matchedWords":["spectro","cloud"],"value":"Google WiFi would give you a more secure solution. Google has a hardware token in the Google WiFi locked to the stored image and that is locked to the running image.
So things like this hack would be exposed.
But then Google keeps them up to date. But the other is Google has now found Shellshock, Heartbleed, Meltdown, Cloudbleed, Spectre among several other big ones and just invest far more in security than anyone else.
They find these problems before anyone. Plus they write them up and highly recommend a few of their blog posts.
A great one is their write up on the Broadpwn vulnerability."},"story_title":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"FBI tells router users to reboot now to kill malware infecting 500k devices"},"story_url":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/05/fbi-tells-router-users-to-reboot-now-to-kill-malware-infecting-500k-devices/"}},"_tags":["comment","author_jacksmith21006","story_17161890"],"author":"jacksmith21006","comment_text":"Google WiFi would give you a more secure solution. Google has a hardware token in the Google WiFi locked to the stored image and that is locked to the running image.
So things like this hack would be exposed.
But then Google keeps them up to date. But the other is Google has now found Shellshock, Heartbleed, Meltdown, Cloudbleed, Spectre among several other big ones and just invest far more in security than anyone else.
They find these problems before anyone. Plus they write them up and highly recommend a few of their blog posts.
A great one is their write up on the Broadpwn vulnerability.","created_at":"2018-05-27T14:03:15Z","created_at_i":1527429795,"objectID":"17166913","parent_id":17163089,"story_id":17161890,"story_title":"FBI tells router users to reboot now to kill malware infecting 500k devices","story_url":"https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/05/fbi-tells-router-users-to-reboot-now-to-kill-malware-infecting-500k-devices/","updated_at":"2024-09-20T02:33:24Z"},{"_highlightResult":{"author":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"jacksmith21006"},"comment_text":{"fullyHighlighted":false,"matchLevel":"full","matchedWords":["spectro","cloud"],"value":"Google does not allow anyone access to my data and I like things to work in the interest of the company. The last company going to give up your data is Google. They know the value and there business is based on trust. They lost trust and they are screwed while companies like Apple do not have the same on the line and why we see Google invest so much more into security and why Google has found Shellshock, Cloudbleed, Spectre, Heartbleed and meltown among others and Apple and MS did not find a single one.
Another example is Apple handed over all their user data in China over to the government while Google instead left China. Kind of saids it all.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/apple-privacy...\nCampaign targets Apple over privacy betrayal for Chinese iCloud ...
You never know if any company deleted your data but trust Google far more because as they have more to lose and Apple giving up their users data in China proves my point. Apple gives your data away and my daughter is still buying a iPhone.
Let me give a specific examples of my issue with Apple. I try to keep all my data at Google. They are not going to give it up for dollar like Apple in China and Google has the best security by a huge amount.
We were recently on holiday and several of my kids have iPhones. I permanently share my location on Google maps. But when we are traveling I use iMessages with my iPhone kids. They need to find me when out and about and will share my location in iMessages as easy to do.
But I do not have a way to clearly remove from Apple as I do not want that data at Apple. I do not want my data spread around. Apple is the worse like this. Google offers on their own and we will need the gov to force Apple to do the same.
Hope that helps."},"story_title":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"After Facebook scrutiny, is Google next?"},"story_url":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"https://phys.org/news/2018-04-facebook-scrutiny-google.html"}},"_tags":["comment","author_jacksmith21006","story_16896885"],"author":"jacksmith21006","comment_text":"Google does not allow anyone access to my data and I like things to work in the interest of the company. The last company going to give up your data is Google. They know the value and there business is based on trust. They lost trust and they are screwed while companies like Apple do not have the same on the line and why we see Google invest so much more into security and why Google has found Shellshock, Cloudbleed, Spectre, Heartbleed and meltown among others and Apple and MS did not find a single one.
Another example is Apple handed over all their user data in China over to the government while Google instead left China. Kind of saids it all.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/apple-privacy...\nCampaign targets Apple over privacy betrayal for Chinese iCloud ...
You never know if any company deleted your data but trust Google far more because as they have more to lose and Apple giving up their users data in China proves my point. Apple gives your data away and my daughter is still buying a iPhone.
Let me give a specific examples of my issue with Apple. I try to keep all my data at Google. They are not going to give it up for dollar like Apple in China and Google has the best security by a huge amount.
We were recently on holiday and several of my kids have iPhones. I permanently share my location on Google maps. But when we are traveling I use iMessages with my iPhone kids. They need to find me when out and about and will share my location in iMessages as easy to do.
But I do not have a way to clearly remove from Apple as I do not want that data at Apple. I do not want my data spread around. Apple is the worse like this. Google offers on their own and we will need the gov to force Apple to do the same.
Hope that helps.","created_at":"2018-04-22T23:05:00Z","created_at_i":1524438300,"objectID":"16899187","parent_id":16899047,"story_id":16896885,"story_title":"After Facebook scrutiny, is Google next?","story_url":"https://phys.org/news/2018-04-facebook-scrutiny-google.html","updated_at":"2024-09-20T02:25:39Z"},{"_highlightResult":{"author":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"russianhun"},"title":{"fullyHighlighted":false,"matchLevel":"full","matchedWords":["spectro","cloud"],"value":"Is the the Cloud Safe in the Wake of Meltdown and Spectre?"},"url":{"fullyHighlighted":false,"matchLevel":"full","matchedWords":["spectro","cloud"],"value":"http://wayoflinux.com/blog/meltdown-spectre-cloud-security"}},"_tags":["story","author_russianhun","story_16152397"],"author":"russianhun","created_at":"2018-01-15T18:36:00Z","created_at_i":1516041360,"num_comments":0,"objectID":"16152397","points":1,"story_id":16152397,"title":"Is the the Cloud Safe in the Wake of Meltdown and Spectre?","updated_at":"2024-09-20T01:53:51Z","url":"http://wayoflinux.com/blog/meltdown-spectre-cloud-security"},{"_highlightResult":{"author":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"albertpedersen"},"story_text":{"fullyHighlighted":false,"matchLevel":"partial","matchedWords":["cloud"],"value":"Paper: https://arxiv.org/abs/2608.17043v1 ("Remote-Timer-as-a-Service: Efficient Microarchitectural Leakage in the Cloud with Remote Timers")"},"title":{"fullyHighlighted":false,"matchLevel":"full","matchedWords":["spectro","cloud"],"value":"A revisit of remote Spectre attacks on Cloudflare Workers"},"url":{"fullyHighlighted":false,"matchLevel":"full","matchedWords":["spectro","cloud"],"value":"https://blog.cloudflare.com/revisiting-spectre-attacks-on-workers/"}},"_tags":["story","author_albertpedersen","story_49364721"],"author":"albertpedersen","children":[49364722,49398790],"created_at":"2026-08-19T17:45:41Z","created_at_i":1787161541,"num_comments":4,"objectID":"49364721","points":76,"story_id":49364721,"story_text":"Paper: https://arxiv.org/abs/2608.17043v1 ("Remote-Timer-as-a-Service: Efficient Microarchitectural Leakage in the Cloud with Remote Timers")","title":"A revisit of remote Spectre attacks on Cloudflare Workers","updated_at":"2026-08-23T04:05:12Z","url":"https://blog.cloudflare.com/revisiting-spectre-attacks-on-workers/"},{"_highlightResult":{"author":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"avarev"},"title":{"fullyHighlighted":false,"matchLevel":"full","matchedWords":["spectro","cloud"],"value":"Stealing private keys in Google Cloud with Spectre L1TF exploit"},"url":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"https://www.vusec.net/projects/rain/"}},"_tags":["story","author_avarev","story_47142044"],"author":"avarev","children":[47142045],"created_at":"2026-02-24T19:59:45Z","created_at_i":1771963185,"num_comments":0,"objectID":"47142044","points":31,"story_id":47142044,"title":"Stealing private keys in Google Cloud with Spectre L1TF exploit","updated_at":"2026-03-05T23:36:37Z","url":"https://www.vusec.net/projects/rain/"},{"_highlightResult":{"author":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"sysadmin_diarie"},"title":{"fullyHighlighted":false,"matchLevel":"full","matchedWords":["spectro","cloud"],"value":"Cloudflare Workers Spectre Attack Leaks JWT at 12 Bits/S"},"url":{"fullyHighlighted":false,"matchLevel":"full","matchedWords":["spectro","cloud"],"value":"https://cyberupdates365.com/cloudflare-workers-spectre-attack/"}},"_tags":["story","author_sysadmin_diarie","story_49370285"],"author":"sysadmin_diarie","children":[49370286,49371162],"created_at":"2026-08-20T04:07:49Z","created_at_i":1787198869,"num_comments":0,"objectID":"49370285","points":4,"story_id":49370285,"title":"Cloudflare Workers Spectre Attack Leaks JWT at 12 Bits/S","updated_at":"2026-08-21T18:01:30Z","url":"https://cyberupdates365.com/cloudflare-workers-spectre-attack/"},{"_highlightResult":{"author":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"twright0"},"comment_text":{"fullyHighlighted":false,"matchLevel":"full","matchedWords":["spectro","cloud"],"value":"I dislike finding myself defending Apple, but these complaints are essentially unfounded.
The butterfly keyboard issue is so noteworthy because it is a dramatic departure from the normal quality levels of Apple products. The only other major (modern) hardware quality issue in an Apple product I can think of is the iPhone 4 antenna thing from 2010; I would be hard-pressed to find another hardware company that's shipped as few problematic products on that time frame, and for many companies a butterfly keyboard style quality issue would be unremarkable! Can you name a company that does consistently better than Apple on hardware quality?
The Apple root password bypass was not good (four years ago), but the set of people with a threat model such that this really mattered is not large (I think it was only ever proven to work with physical access to the device, for example). The "goto fail" bug[1] was also quite bad, in fairness. But on the same time frame neither of those really registers as a vulnerability on the same level of impact as Heartbleed[2], Cloudbleed[3], Spectre[4] and related issues, or even the more recent Solarwinds[5] or Exchange[6] hacks. Every software company has security incidents; Apple is absolutely not an outlier or unusually insecure.
[1] https://dwheeler.com/essays/apple-goto-fail.html\n[2] https://heartbleed.com/\n[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloudbleed/\n[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectre_(security_vulnerabilit...\n[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_federal_gov...\n[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Microsoft_Exchange_Server..."},"story_title":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"French data protection watchdog casts doubt on Apple\u2019s privacy compliance"},"story_url":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"https://www.politico.eu/article/apple-france-french-data-protection-privacy-compliance-watchdog-cnil-doubt/"}},"_tags":["comment","author_twright0","story_26558873"],"author":"twright0","comment_text":"I dislike finding myself defending Apple, but these complaints are essentially unfounded.
The butterfly keyboard issue is so noteworthy because it is a dramatic departure from the normal quality levels of Apple products. The only other major (modern) hardware quality issue in an Apple product I can think of is the iPhone 4 antenna thing from 2010; I would be hard-pressed to find another hardware company that's shipped as few problematic products on that time frame, and for many companies a butterfly keyboard style quality issue would be unremarkable! Can you name a company that does consistently better than Apple on hardware quality?
The Apple root password bypass was not good (four years ago), but the set of people with a threat model such that this really mattered is not large (I think it was only ever proven to work with physical access to the device, for example). The "goto fail" bug[1] was also quite bad, in fairness. But on the same time frame neither of those really registers as a vulnerability on the same level of impact as Heartbleed[2], Cloudbleed[3], Spectre[4] and related issues, or even the more recent Solarwinds[5] or Exchange[6] hacks. Every software company has security incidents; Apple is absolutely not an outlier or unusually insecure.
[1] https://dwheeler.com/essays/apple-goto-fail.html\n[2] https://heartbleed.com/\n[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloudbleed/\n[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectre_(security_vulnerabilit...\n[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_federal_gov...\n[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Microsoft_Exchange_Server...","created_at":"2021-03-24T03:55:56Z","created_at_i":1616558156,"objectID":"26563433","parent_id":26562959,"story_id":26558873,"story_title":"French data protection watchdog casts doubt on Apple\u2019s privacy compliance","story_url":"https://www.politico.eu/article/apple-france-french-data-protection-privacy-compliance-watchdog-cnil-doubt/","updated_at":"2024-09-20T08:13:57Z"},{"_highlightResult":{"author":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"saltyshake"},"comment_text":{"fullyHighlighted":false,"matchLevel":"full","matchedWords":["spectro","cloud"],"value":"Besides cloud providers running VMs /containers on the cloud, is Spectre/Meltdown really such an issue for day-to-day consumers ?"},"story_title":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"Intel Announces 8 Core I9-9900KS: Every Core at 5Ghz, All the Time"},"story_url":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"https://www.anandtech.com/show/14402/intel-announces-5-ghz-all-core-turbo-cpu"}},"_tags":["comment","author_saltyshake","story_20015633"],"author":"saltyshake","children":[20016217,20016455,20016490],"comment_text":"Besides cloud providers running VMs /containers on the cloud, is Spectre/Meltdown really such an issue for day-to-day consumers ?","created_at":"2019-05-26T17:35:51Z","created_at_i":1558892151,"objectID":"20016179","parent_id":20016095,"story_id":20015633,"story_title":"Intel Announces 8 Core I9-9900KS: Every Core at 5Ghz, All the Time","story_url":"https://www.anandtech.com/show/14402/intel-announces-5-ghz-all-core-turbo-cpu","updated_at":"2024-09-20T04:14:16Z"},{"_highlightResult":{"author":{"matchLevel":"none","matchedWords":[],"value":"nodesocket"},"comment_text":{"fullyHighlighted":false,"matchLevel":"full","matchedWords":["spectro","cloud"],"value":"I can think of a few:
1.) Shared resources, and exploits like meltdown and spectre \n 2.) Cloud provider employees potentially have access\n 3.) Cloud providers are subject to law enforcement requests\n 1.) Shared resources, and exploits like meltdown and spectre \n 2.) Cloud provider employees potentially have access\n 3.) Cloud providers are subject to law enforcement requests\n